tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post2775732161925741822..comments2024-01-30T12:26:03.019-05:00Comments on The Blog of Garnel Ironheart: The Coming Split, Part 2Mighty Garnel Ironhearthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09571194550300367249noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-125403245265140732008-03-09T06:51:00.000-04:002008-03-09T06:51:00.000-04:00You're so profound SJ.Get back to yoru cubicle!You're so profound SJ.<BR/><BR/>Get back to yoru cubicle!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-63701334353721093932008-03-06T16:55:00.000-05:002008-03-06T16:55:00.000-05:00Yay!!! Schism!!!!!!!!!A schism between the shomrea...Yay!!! Schism!!!!!!!!!<BR/><BR/>A schism between the shomreai negiah nuts and the antitelevision nuts and between us Jews who are normal people is long overdue. XDSJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10704885840004960450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-85872253854173775162008-03-06T16:51:00.000-05:002008-03-06T16:51:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.SJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10704885840004960450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-21663541290358344552008-03-06T10:03:00.000-05:002008-03-06T10:03:00.000-05:00No commentary on the death of Gary Gygax?No commentary on the death of Gary Gygax?The Reish Galuta of the Geulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13277553563744944539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-32738446386271275222008-03-05T16:56:00.000-05:002008-03-05T16:56:00.000-05:00Perhaps the difference is that while the Rav forbi...Perhaps the difference is that while the Rav forbid "intrafaith" dialogue with Conservatives and Reformers, he did allow cooperation on matters of general concern to the entire Jewish community. The current Chareidi attitude is one of non-cooperation in all matters they are not in charge of. <BR/><BR/>I agree that respect for one another is a desirable goal. Certainly when counselling a squabbling couple, the first advice I give is "Work on just being civil to each other" and that would be appropriate here. Unfortunately, I agree the ideologies have pushed both sides so far apart that NOT getting along is part of each's identity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-53955196356855717082008-03-05T15:40:00.000-05:002008-03-05T15:40:00.000-05:00Hi,While some of Yoffie's talk of "inter-mural uni...Hi,<BR/><BR/>While some of Yoffie's talk of "inter-mural unity" might be fanciful, I don't think he's specifically thinking (or referring) to the fact that Reform and Conservative were in the ascendancy "back in the day." I think he's talking about the perception among American Jews as a whole back then was that the majority of Orthodox Jews in America seemed to me firmly in the Modern Orthodox camp, some of whose values, particularly regarding education and "the outside world" that mirrored those of other denominations. This "open" view seemed to extend to being somewhat more inclusive of (or interactive with) their own non-Orthodox brethren. Not unlike the description of the Frankfurt school.<BR/><BR/>However with the dramatic shift towards the Haredi wing (both because of the Haredi boom but also because it seems like they are overwhelming or subsuming the MOs), the perception is that there has been a significant change in American Orthodoxy- both internally, like with dress codes or mixed seating, and externally, as far as what the "move to the right" means for how non-Orthodox Jews are viewed by the "average" Orthodox Jew on the street. I think Yoffie is saying that part of the reason for the widening gulf between the denominations is the fact that MO seems to be dying and is being replaced by a very vocal (and exclusivist) Haredi Orthodoxy.<BR/><BR/>Obviously there is some measure of wishful thinking here- R. Soloveitchik, for example, wasn't a big fan of Reform or Conservative Judaism. But I think Yoffie is saying that non-Orthos feel like the gulf has become a lot wider (and certainly more heated) in the past several decades. Clearly, some of this is because Reform (and to a degree Conservative) are being more vocal about playing by their own rules. But I think it's also because the Haredim (and their MO allies) seem to be adopting a "our way or the highway" position.<BR/><BR/>To be honest, I think we're beyond the point where American Judaism can be "made whole"- not that I'm sure that should be the desired result. I think the reality is that there is a large gap, not just culturally and socially but also ideologically, between Orthodox Judaism and the other movements, and I don't think we can pretend that isn't there.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I'd settle for some basic ground rules of respect between the denominations and their members. But that may be wishful thinking, too.Friar Yid (not Shlita)https://www.blogger.com/profile/10311439778319103094noreply@blogger.com