tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post7415099736568869670..comments2024-01-30T12:26:03.019-05:00Comments on The Blog of Garnel Ironheart: Reattaching Reason To RitualMighty Garnel Ironhearthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09571194550300367249noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-42870733475628224362013-09-01T04:55:27.565-04:002013-09-01T04:55:27.565-04:00http://thoughtsofasj.blogspot.com/2013/09/shmarya-...<a href="http://thoughtsofasj.blogspot.com/2013/09/shmarya-rosenberg-antisemite.html" rel="nofollow">http://thoughtsofasj.blogspot.com/2013/09/shmarya-rosenberg-antisemite.html</a>SJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10704885840004960450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-59041212748580222372013-08-26T22:15:09.971-04:002013-08-26T22:15:09.971-04:00Garnel,
I very much agree with you.
Dave. Garnel, <br /><br />I very much agree with you.<br />Dave. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-57528000672181134222013-08-25T19:49:31.467-04:002013-08-25T19:49:31.467-04:00>> Finally we have the DH, which so fundamen...>> Finally we have the DH, which so fundamentally undercuts the traditional basis for Judaism as to be a true threat to emunah<br /><br />A History of God by Karen Armstrong explains how the JEDP narratives were psychologically helpful to the Israelites at each of their eras assuming you believe in DH.SJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10704885840004960450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-37385445641629793842013-08-25T10:57:09.281-04:002013-08-25T10:57:09.281-04:00This is kind of an interesting essay. I think it ...This is kind of an interesting essay. I think it would be interesting to have guest posts or continue in this vein on this issue of rationality versus ritual.<br /><br />Baal teshuvas are generally the most insistent that Judaism has a rational basis for belief. Of course, if you want to get into the question of whether Torah is likely a supernatural document or not – well, that is pretty much off limits.<br /><br />The friction in Judaism comes I think from two sources at least: first, Judaism has the highest bar of all religions. We have a full historical story that needs validating: the exodus, the mizrayim time, the conquest of the land.<br /><br />Second, we have a Torah that needs to be specifically and completely G-d given. Otherwise halacha derived from specific verses gets wobbly. Therefore people get nervous around whether Genesis is true, or the mabul happened, or this word or that sentence was inserted or G-d given. And whether we have the exact same Torah as was given to Moses. Bottom line: a document used for inspiration is not enough for halachic Judaism.<br /><br />Finally we have the DH, which so fundamentally undercuts the traditional basis for Judaism as to be a true threat to emunah. The problems here are two as well. First, the document does appear to come from multiple sources and multiple time periods. The Torah also follows our discovery of other documents from that time which share this attribute. Finally, today there are more mutually reinforcing lines of evidence that support this conclusion. It would take months or years to lay out the case from all angles.<br /><br />Second, while people are happy to bury Rav Farber in scorn, there is STILL no appetite for looking at the evidence that led him to his conclusions. Like you said: once they hear it is the DH, the Torah true Jew turns off. No evidence, thank you very much. Another helping of Talmud please.<br /><br />You are “guilty” of this too I think, based on your reflexive sneering at examining or laying out the evidence.<br /><br />So – with all the rationality – there are obviously real limits.<br /><br />The Open Orthodoxy movement can yell all day about various approaches and what is permissible (obviously you are correct that they are crazy to think they can shoehorn the DH into normative orthodoxy) but you have to explain: why are orthodox Jews kept from evaluating the evidence for DH? <br /><br />I think it is because their rational faculty would be awakened, and their emunah threatened for all time. You seem to suggest that rationality has a friend in Judaism. I think the truth is the cloistered intellectual life of the haredi is the only way to keep full on orthodox Judaism alive. Evaluating the claims is truly a non starter. I don’t see how any truly orthodox person can pretend that a Jew’s emunah would survive a rational look at the evidence. If this were the case, the walls of orthodox Judaism could come down, and haredi Jews could live, work, and relate to the larger world in a whole new way.<br /><br />TuviaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-86325232078485729922013-08-23T06:04:35.275-04:002013-08-23T06:04:35.275-04:00ya try reattaching reason to orthodox wearing heav...ya try reattaching reason to orthodox wearing heavy clothing in the summer.<br /><br /><br />don't gimme dat it's the uniform bs.SJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10704885840004960450noreply@blogger.com