tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post7481538889167806150..comments2024-01-30T12:26:03.019-05:00Comments on The Blog of Garnel Ironheart: Gedolim Who Matter Part 3 - The RavMighty Garnel Ironhearthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09571194550300367249noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-78786898217701421432008-11-12T07:59:00.000-05:002008-11-12T07:59:00.000-05:00I was actually wondering about that paragraph on R...I was actually wondering about that paragraph on Rav Hirsch. It seemed out of place considering the bio is on Rav Soloveitchik.<BR/><BR/>At any rate, one takes one's chances with Wikipedia. There was a recent controversy because pro-Arab editors are going through entries that counter the usual Arab historical claims and editing them out.<BR/><BR/>But it's cheap and easy. What can I say?Mighty Garnel Ironhearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09571194550300367249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-37188821881664292942008-11-12T04:41:00.000-05:002008-11-12T04:41:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-56117642537316489012008-11-11T19:17:00.000-05:002008-11-11T19:17:00.000-05:00Clarification: I didn't write any of that, but it'...Clarification: I didn't write any of that, but it's a good example of chareidi bias on the Wiki.Baruchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08051421355654178857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-68760358823712740162008-11-11T19:16:00.000-05:002008-11-11T19:16:00.000-05:00Back when I used to be a Wikieditor, I had a lot t...Back when I used to be a Wikieditor, I had a lot to do with this article. I'm sure if you look, you'll see traces of my editorship in here...<BR/><BR/>The Jewish sections of the Wiki as I recall it are pretty frum, somewhat biased towards the chareidim on some things in fact. I didn't realize the extent of my own chareidi bias back then, so I too had something to do with it.<BR/><BR/>For example:<BR/>Those on Orthodoxy's right wing hold that Hirsch himself only approved of secular studies as a "Horaas Sha'ah", or temporary dispensation, in order to save Orthodox Jewry of the 1800s from the threat posed by assimilation. While a yeshiva student in Eastern Europe, Rabbi Shimon Schwab obtained the opinion's of various Poskim (authorities in Jewish law) to this effect (see Selected Writings "These and Those" where Schwab himself disagrees).<BR/><BR/>To the other extreme, some Modern Orthodox Jews understand Hirsch in the sense of Torah Umadda, meaning a synthesis of Torah knowledge and secular knowledge - each for its own sake (this view is propagated in several articles in Tradition: A Journal of Orthodox Thought, published by the Rabbinical Council of America). In this view, Hirsch thought that it was permissible, and even productive, for Jews to learn gentile philosophy, music, art, literature and ethics for their own sake.<BR/><BR/>In contrast, a third middle opinion held by Hirsch's descendants (his son-in-law and successor Rabbi Solomon Breuer, his grandson Rabbi Joseph Breuer and the latter's successor Rabbi Shimon Schwab), Rabbi Joseph Elias in his commentary to the Nineteen Letters (Feldheim 1995) and some Jewish historians, says that both of these understandings of Hirsch's philosophy are misguided; they refer to these readings of Hirsch as improper historical revisionism. In response to the "temporary dispensation" theory, they point to Hirsch in Collected Writings as continually stressing the philosophical and religious imperative of Torah im Derech Eretz for all times (Note that Hirsch himself addressed this contention: "Torah im Derech Eretz ... is not part of troubled, time bound notions; it represents the ancient, traditional wisdom of our sages that has stood the test everywhere and at all times." (Gesammelte Schriften vi p.221); see further Rabbi Shimon Schwab in Selected Writings- "These and Those"). In response to the "Torah Umadda" theory they say that Hirschian philosophy demands the domination of Torah over secular knowledge, not a separate synthesis. On this basis, many adherents of Hirsch's philosophy have preferred the natural sciences over the humanities as a subject of secular study, seemingly because they are easier to judge through the prism of Torah thought than the more abstract humanities.Baruchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08051421355654178857noreply@blogger.com