tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post8603297707068318979..comments2024-01-30T12:26:03.019-05:00Comments on The Blog of Garnel Ironheart: The Problem With the Easy AnswerMighty Garnel Ironhearthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09571194550300367249noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-53929611690601304862010-05-11T10:48:03.728-04:002010-05-11T10:48:03.728-04:00"...you can't turn around and invent new ..."...you can't turn around and invent new beliefs and call them Jewish because you happen to be. "<br /><br />no, you can't... on the other hand, the belief that every last facet of today's intricate orthodox Jewish lifestyle---from celebrating upsherins to ultra-glam sheitels to bonfires on Lag B'Omer to 5 years in kollel---is all basically unchanged from the time of Sinai (better yet, the Avos, who were shomer haTorah umitzvos!), or even that it was all incorporated into our practices only through proper channels, via a consensus of rabbonim in each generation---this is pure nonsense.JRSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-46535302799949866472010-05-06T16:52:33.061-04:002010-05-06T16:52:33.061-04:00David, Perhaps we can look at Anonymous' state...David, Perhaps we can look at Anonymous' statement like this: If you view this as merely an old saw, how exactly do you express your Judaism?<br />In other words, one cannot question whether or not you're a member of the tribe. Menashe haRasha was the worst idolator in our nation's history and was still a member of the tribe. But the question comes back to: what behaviours define one Jewishly?Garnel Ironheartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-6242992308477564252010-05-06T16:43:14.585-04:002010-05-06T16:43:14.585-04:00Garnel, of course Anonymous was judging who gets t...Garnel, of course Anonymous was judging who gets to be Jewish or not. And, for the record, I did not invent any new beliefs!Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15752938979399977997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-34315978580197708262010-05-06T16:04:18.278-04:002010-05-06T16:04:18.278-04:00Bob's original statement that "HaShem sen...Bob's original statement that "HaShem sends us signals for our betterment" is based on the gemara in Brachot but note the subjective nature of that gemara. There is a massive difference between someone coming to a conclusion that some negative consequence is to understood as a result of some misbehaviour and someone stating that this result was objectively God's intent. How are we to know God's intent or purpose? We can though take away something from what happens to us and what we can learn from it.<br /><br />This point has two important ramifications. First, the gemara's objective is to cause every individual to look at their lives -- not someone else's. The idea that the volcano erupted to punish the British is not only problematic, as Garnel points out, but serves no purpose. What do I learn from postulating that this effect happened to someone else to punish this other person? All I do is find another way to justify me. This is not the intent of the gemara. If you can't learn a lesson for yourself, don't even bother to voice what you think is the reason behind an occurrance. And this leads to the second aspect of this lesson. Its what you can learn. You are not God to even contemplate what his objective is.<br /><br />In regard to the other debate within the comments, the idea that God is perfect in the way He runs the world obviously is connected to the very objective God has for this world. This world is the perfect embodiment of God's purpose for this world. Any questions on the way God is running the world really are, as such, questions regarding this objective. If we do not see how this world is the perfect embodiment of God's purpose for this world, it may be, in fact it most likely is, reflective of a different understanding of what the purpose of this world is. Given David's list of the horrors in this world, the purpose is clearly not humanity's contentment and pleasure.<br /><br />Rabbi Ben HechtNishmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04237299801109329429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-1021676565411818572010-05-06T12:27:02.929-04:002010-05-06T12:27:02.929-04:00Anonymous isn't judging what gets to be Jewish...Anonymous isn't judging what gets to be Jewish or not. Some values and beliefs are articles of faith in Judaism whether or not you agree with them. No, you don't stop being Jewish the moment you stop agreeing with the article of faith but you can't turn around and invent new beliefs and call them Jewish because you happen to be.Garnel Ironhearthttp://garnelironheart.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-65442203241880194832010-05-06T12:06:18.761-04:002010-05-06T12:06:18.761-04:00Since when are you, Anonymous, the judge of who ge...Since when are you, Anonymous, the judge of who gets to be Jewish or not? If it's a "Jewish article of faith that HaShem runs everything properly," does that mean that one stops being Jewish the moment one comes to the conclusion that this article of faith is untenable? I say the belief is silly, Jewish or not, and I further submit that it is inconsistent with a notion of free choice (also a Jewish belief, no?). So, either defend it or yield the argument you're already losing, but don't fling doctrine at me in lieu of reason.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15752938979399977997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-44381798587367962262010-05-06T10:50:31.863-04:002010-05-06T10:50:31.863-04:00Since when are you, David, the judge of how the un...Since when are you, David, the judge of how the universe is run? It's a Jewish article of faith that HaShem runs everything properly, whether we or not we grasp the reasons. If you view this as merely an old saw, how exactly are you Jewish?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-40720783877509756832010-05-06T09:55:23.954-04:002010-05-06T09:55:23.954-04:00"...trusting that He will do a perfect job ru..."...trusting that He will do a perfect job running the universe."<br /><br />Isn't that kind of silly? How can Pol Pot, Hitler, the Crusades, spina bifida, suicide bombers, flesh-eating virus, appendicitis, Vlad the Impaler, your ex-girlfriend, ingrown toenails, Barney the Dinosaur, and Karl Marx all exist if the universe is perfectly run? Short answer: people who choose to believe that it's perfectly run come up with post-hoc rationalizations of anything that happens, or fall back on the old saw "we can't understand because we don't have the big picture." Don't you ever get tired of that excuse? The universe may be a lot of things, but "perfectly run" is manifestly not one of them.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15752938979399977997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-56328689108187236862010-05-06T09:36:59.211-04:002010-05-06T09:36:59.211-04:00Garnel,
We have to deal with both these principle...Garnel,<br /><br />We have to deal with both these principles:<br /><br />1. HaShem sends us signals for our betterment.<br /><br />2. HaShem's actions are not always understandable on our level, given that He knows all and we cannot.<br /><br />Based on your approach, when, if ever, could you discern and properly interpret a signal from HaShem? Or do you rule out such signals altogether except to a genuine navi?Bob Millernoreply@blogger.com