tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post9057348772815942853..comments2024-01-30T12:26:03.019-05:00Comments on The Blog of Garnel Ironheart: Holocaust Denial and Sinai DenialMighty Garnel Ironhearthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09571194550300367249noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-9912318565262301532012-05-05T17:01:40.899-04:002012-05-05T17:01:40.899-04:00Sorry I'm a couple years too late. I think thi...Sorry I'm a couple years too late. I think this is an interesting comparison and a good point. The issue I have with it is when I take your argument and turn it around. Let's say I start making up proofs that aliens landed in my neighborhood and I spread it around and tell my kids and friends, and they play along. If someone is skeptical 100 years later because he's not convinced by the "proofs", is that the same as a future holocaust denyer?<br />And if it is different, then how does sinai denial resemble holocaust denial more than alien denial.<br />I hope you respond because I'd like to hear what you have to say.<br />ThanksFQnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-44662913902977274912010-06-06T10:52:19.485-04:002010-06-06T10:52:19.485-04:00If the only evidence we had for the holocaust was ...If the only evidence we had for the holocaust was a single book purportedly dictated by God and transcribed in the third person by a man who died before the end of the book, there would be a lot more holocaust denial than there is.<br /><br />Similarly we don't have multiple sources of evidence for "what Julius Caeser had for breakfast on the day he conquered Gaul" - as if Gaul was conquered in a day!<br /><br />In 1000 years from now most intelligent people will believe in the holocaust just as they believe in the history of ancient Egypt - although they will undoubtedly argue over the details of both. Whether they will believe that a sentient supernatural being dictated not just 10 Commandments but also a convoluted story about the past and the (then) future, that was transcribed by a character in the story and contained references to talking quadraped serpents, is another matter.David Kessler Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08389208081483334893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-40482322917828509332009-03-19T07:58:00.000-04:002009-03-19T07:58:00.000-04:00Here's my point:> 1) We have tremendous amo...Here's my point:<BR/>> 1) We have tremendous amounts of evidence for the Holocaust of many different sorts. <BR/><BR/>Only one type is reliable beyond doubt:<BR/><BR/>> We have eyewitness testimony from survivors, <BR/><BR/>Exactly. And the rest is all potentially suspect:<BR/><BR/>> which has been recorded in many durable forms.<BR/><BR/>Hollywood can create history that never happened. Forrest Gump met three US presidents. The crew of Deep Space Nine visited the original USS Enterprise and interacted with the crew there. Video is easily faked.<BR/><BR/>> We have direct physical left-overs of the various concentration camps.<BR/><BR/>No, they were work camps. The Nazis were clean freaks and the so-called crematoria were for disinfecting and destroyed infected garments, equipments, etc.<BR/><BR/>> We have documents written by Nazis detailing the plans for the concentration camps. <BR/><BR/>Forged by Jews later on to bolster their claims.<BR/><BR/>Except for eye witness testimony, all the physical evidence can be questioned. It seems absurd and offensive today but my point is that in 50 years it won't be. It'll become a point of skeptical scholarship. Questioning the truth of the Holocaust will be as legitimate as questioning what Julius Caeser had for breakfast the day he conquered Gaul.<BR/><BR/>And 1000 years from now how much more so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-53216277739349635812009-03-18T19:52:00.000-04:002009-03-18T19:52:00.000-04:00http://www.codoh.com/http://www.codoh.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-43416130873815347922009-03-18T16:28:00.000-04:002009-03-18T16:28:00.000-04:00This is an inaccurate and frankly a bit offensive ...This is an inaccurate and frankly a bit offensive comparison (seriously, comparing Holocaust Denial to doubt over whether there was a revelation at Sinai). In any event the comparison is inaccurate for many reasons:<BR/><BR/>1) We have tremendous amounts of evidence for the Holocaust of many different sorts. We have eyewitness testimony from survivors, which has been recorded in many durable forms. We have direct physical left-overs of the various concentration camps. We have documents written by Nazis detailing the plans for the concentration camps. This is just some of it.<BR/><BR/>Let's contrast that to Sinai. We have a single document that may or may not have been written at that time and we have people with a tradition that their ancestors were there. That's hardly the same. Indeed, do you even have such direct transmission? If all your ancestors had been geirim a 1000 years ago would you know today? Probably not. So the claim that there's any strongly reliable transmission simply doesn't work. <BR/><BR/>This comparison simply doesn't work.Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00637936588223855248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-56450721241627514362009-03-16T18:23:00.001-04:002009-03-16T18:23:00.001-04:00Funny, because Alan Dershowitz deals with this ver...Funny, because Alan Dershowitz deals with this very concept in The Vanishing American Jew.<BR/><BR/>Bottom line: for me, Sinai is a historical happening. Someone who denies it denies a real event. So what's the difference?Mighty Garnel Ironhearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09571194550300367249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-14341416804230923962009-03-16T18:23:00.000-04:002009-03-16T18:23:00.000-04:00Funny, because Alan Dershowitz deals with this ver...Funny, because Alan Dershowitz deals with this very concept in The Vanishing American Jew.<BR/><BR/>Bottom line: for me, Sinai is a historical happening. Someone who denies it denies a real event. So what's the difference?Mighty Garnel Ironhearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09571194550300367249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1097749014220347853.post-26064660170316642592009-03-16T14:26:00.000-04:002009-03-16T14:26:00.000-04:00"After all, it is quite obvious to us that God gav..."After all, it is quite obvious to us that God gave us His Torah at Har Sinai, that David HaMelech ruled over Israel and that his son Shlomo HaMelech built our first Temple in which the Shechina resided. <BR/>But not to the skeptics..."<BR/><BR/>You can't call "obvious" something that you accept as a matter of faith. You retreat into the faith/reason distinction when it suits you, Garnel, so don't drop ugly suggestions that your beliefs are all 'obviously' true, while people who don't share them are the functional equivalent of Holocaust deniers.<BR/><BR/>This post is a cheap shot, and unworthy of serious debate.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15752938979399977997noreply@blogger.com