Obviously I don't follow the inner workings of the Reforms with much regularity but when I saw this piece, I was surprised. I had always assumed Hebrew Union College was just one institution. There's three of them?
The board of governors of Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion will meet next month to discuss various ways of dealing with the school's financial problems, including whether to keep open just one of its three campuses in Los Angeles, New York and Cinncinati, according to the Los Angeles Times. Other alternatives include merging some academic programs while keeping more than one campus open.
In a letter to members of the college community this week, president Rabbi David Ellenson said HUC-IJR faced a deficit this year of $3 million and was "in the most challenging financial position it has faced in its history -- even more so than during the Depression," because of declines in its endowment and in dues paid by Reform congregations around the country, among other funding problems.
I can't express much sympathy on this one. Reform is about lack of commitment. When I was a kid, the Reform group in my home town lacked a building so they met twice a month at the local JCC which gave them the social hall free of charge. For many years they tried to strike a building committee but everytime they mentioned to the members that their dues, which were dirt cheap since the only thing they had to pay for was a rabbi, might go up people threated to jump back to the Orthodox shul or the Conservatives. They weren't necessarily there because they believed in Reform principles, but so they could say they belonged to a synagogue and get rock bottom dues.
You can't create a religion based on lack of dedication to anything other than amorphous secular values and then complain when the financial base can't keep up with increasing demands in a time of crisis. This was inevitable.
Navonim - The Ramblings of Garnel Ironheart
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26 comments:
read my blog. XD
Probably true on most points, and I'm not an admirer of the Reform movement in any real way. That said, I'm not sure that their financial difficulties are something to crow about, as I'm not sure that it wouldn't be fairly easy to find some OJ institutions with similar difficulties.
Come on. They've had 3 campuses for years and years. They've also been the richest rabbinical school forever. And who the heck wants to be in Cincinnati?
I just found this blog and I love it. To get to the topic I think that since conservative and reformed Judaism are more recent spin-offs of orthodox Judaism I just don't understand how any sincere person can be part of their movements. If you believe in Judaism then shouldn't you believe in the Judaism that has a heritage dating back to the original Judaism, not the Judaism that was created in the 1700s or 1800s.
"To get to the topic I think that since conservative and reformed Judaism are more recent spin-offs of orthodox Judaism I just don't understand how any sincere person can be part of their movements."
With all due respect, e-man, that's a silly argument. America is a recent spin-off of Great Britain; I'm still quite sincere in my attachment.
To be somewhat less glib, if someone has a sincere attachment to Judaism and Jewish tradition, he or she may still find many Orthodox beliefs and practices to be unpalatable. If I sincerely believe that Judaism is good, and that Jewish traditions are valuable, but I reject the notion that they were handed down on Sinai, then my beliefs are outside of Orthodoxy. What would you suggest?
I don't understand why you would want to be Jewish if you don't believe in Sinai. Judaism is only a religion if Sinai happened, so how could one be Jewish if they don't believe in that?
Also, being a fan of a nation that treats you well is different than believing in a religion.
1) Actually, Conservatism is a spin off of Reform. Reform was the original breakaway and Solomon Schechter and his friends who were uncomfortable with a Torah-free Judaism created their movement - the idea was to create a middle ground of democratic halacha that would change with the times and prevalent values.
2) How does one define Judaism? If it's as a nationality that began with the revelation at Sinai, then rejecting Sinai means rejecting the entire kitten kaboodle. If one sees it in cultural terms then the whole situation is much more amorphous. Clearly David see it in the latter form so he doesn't have a conflict between being a happy Jew and denying Sinai. E-Jew seems to be the former.
I just don't understand a Judaism that is cultural and not based on Sinai. Why is something Judaism, because they call themselves Jews? So, because you identify as a "Jew" you are Jewish? That seems odd to me. Also, I know that conservative Judaism is a spinoff of a spinoff, but that still technically makes it a spinoff of orthodox Judaism.
I would appreciate if someone could explain this idea of cultural Judaism. My brother told me he is a humanistic Jew. He said that means he believes in the culture, but not G-D. I just said, what does that mean??? So any explanation that makes sense would be appreciated.
E-Man--
Pause and think about it, and put aside your personal prejudices.
A person might believe in God, value Jewish tradition, take pride in Jewish history, and be keenly aware of a Jewish identity, and yet still think that, in light of history, archaeology, biblical scholarship, science, and reason, it is highly unlikely that the stories in the Torah are literally true, or that the text was the product of a single God, rather than multiple humans.
Seriously-- for someone who simply finds it impossible to believe in the Sinai revelation as other than mythology, what would you recommend? Should I just chuck the baby with the bathwater and find a more plausible religion?
I just don't understand why you would believe in Judaism and its G-D. Because if you don't believe in Sinai then the entire jewish religion is pointless. Maybe you like the culture or something, but to say you believe in the jewish G-D doesn't make sense to me.
I just can't see how you can believe in the bible but then say it isn't true. That seems like a contradiction to me. That is what I am saying. I am just wondering, what is your rationalization to be Jewish? Is it just for community? Is it just for the culture? Or is it because you believe in G-D, but for some reason do not believe in the book that He wrote? If that is the case, why are you so certain that the G-D of the Jews is the correct G-D?
E-man, there is no patent on the word "Judaism". If, for example, there was an official definition like: Must believe in revelation at Sinai and accept authority of the Shulchan Aruch, then you would have an excellent point. That's why you now hear terms like "traditional Judaism", because that way is closer to decribing what we would otherwise call "proper Judaism".
For David and your brother, it's otherwise. Since there's no official definition, there can be such things as secular Judaism and cultural Judaism.
Here's an example - a few years ago a pro-pesticide group in Toronto went around calling themselves environmentalists. When the "real" environmentalists accused them of lying, they responded by noting that they were concerned that pests wouldn't overrun the local environment and destroy people's lawns, hence they cared about the environment and were environmentalists.
I understand they can call themselves Jews and be correct, however that is not what I don't understand. I am just unsure why someone would want to be Jewish if they don't believe in Sinai. I am just unsure why they are convinced Judaism is more correct than anything else. In an argument why would they say Judaism is more correct? Is it just a feeling they have? They like the culture more? That is basically my question. An orthodox Jew believes in Sinai, therefore, they can argue that Sinai proves that G-D told the Jews to be Jewish and this is a reason to be Jewish. At least at a very basic level.
The question is: why would Garnel believe that non-Orthodox individuals would be less willing to spend their money on their Jewishness? That may have been the case in his home town, but in numerous non-Orthodox synagogues around the world that is not the case. Money flows quite feely -- and why not? Don't people put out great amounts of money for new art centres or musuems or country clubs. You see it is all a matter of what people want. It all flows from the self and if a person has a strong feeling of Jewishness -- they will want to do something to express this Jewishness -- and let the money flow. The case in Garnel's home town was that the people did not have such strong Jewish feelings, they, thus, were really willing to only pay a certain amount for this product -- just like someone who will only pay a limited amount for tickets to the Yankees -- but someone is going to buy those $2500 tickets -- because that's what he/she wants.
And this is also what E-Man doesn't quite understand. I sympathize with his perspective. Are we Jewish because of a force without or a force within? Are we Jewish because God told us to be or because we want to be? If the former, than we better also recognize and meet His standards for this entity called Jewishness. If the latter, its just some feeling that we have that is somewhat connected to some others with that feeling but really is quite malleable. These people are not convinced that Judaism is more correct than anything else, its just what they want, defined the way they want it to be. (E-Man, if you are more interested in this topic, beside checking out my website at www.nishma.org and various presentations on Jewish identity that are on the site, drop me an email at the email address available at the website and I will offer you further stuff on this issue.)
Rabbi Ben Hecht
Remember that it's all a matter of perspective and the reality one lives in.
For a secular Jew, being proud of being Jewish is no different than a Pole being proud to be Polish. One can be happy to be in a specific ethno-religious group while accepting that others can have a similar pride in their own. That is the secular perspective and in fact, one sees that often on display at "interfaith" gatherings where non-religious Jews will enthusiastically learn about and participate in cultural activities belonging to other groups without feeling any conflict because, at the same time, these other groups are doing the same thing by participating in "Jewish" activities.
It's different when one accepts the truth of Sinai because then there is a qualitative difference between us and them but that's the divide between the religious and the non-religious perspective.
David said...
"Is it just for community? Is it just for the culture? Or is it because you believe in G-D, but for some reason do not believe in the book that He wrote? If that is the case, why are you so certain that the G-D of the Jews is the correct G-D?"
Maybe it's a bunch of those things. I was born a Jew-- frankly, I doubt I'd become one if I hadn't been. I identify as a Jew because (notwithstanding your insistence on telling me what I'm required to think in order to pass muster) it's how I was raised.
As to believing in God but not in the "book He wrote," I honestly don't know what to think about God, but I'm pretty sure that if He actually wrote a book, a) it would be a bit more accurate and believeable; b) it wouldn't countenance things like slavery, agunot, genocide and killing people for Sabbath-violation; and c) it wouldn't require constant fudging by a bunch of rabbis in order to make it work.
Has it occurred to you, e-man, that the people who founded the State of Israel were pretty conscious of their Jewish identity but were, in large part, quite secular from a religious perspective? Maybe the problem is with your narrow view on the subject, and not someone else's take on religious dogma.
That doesn't answer the question as to why believe in the G-D of the jews. And if you don't then why be Jewish, that is what I am asking.
Your question is pointless. One can believe in "God" without accepting the notion that the stories in the Torah have any basis in reality, or that God wrote them. The notion that God created the universe is not inconsistent with the notion that the Torah is one nation's flawed but admirable attempt to explain God and His intentions.
Moreover, one can self-identify as a Jew regardless of what one believes. Maybe I like the Torah; maybe I like my community; maybe I just like gefilte fish. Frankly, according to the bizarre laws of Orthodox Judaism, I'm stuck being a Jew regardless of what I believe or what I do, since my mother was born a Jew. The real question, then, is why are you persisting in this rather foolish and contradictory line of inquiry?
If you are not orthodox why do you subscribe to their definition of Judaism? My question should be answerable it is just wondering why someone would choose Judaism instead of just believing G-D exists and not subscribing to Judaism. It sounds like you do not believe in Judaism, but rather you feel stuck. My question is not to you then, rather it is to someone who does not feel stuck, but rather has an intellectual reason for choosing Judaism.
I was wondering about that intellectual reason. Now, we have said for social reasons and cultural reasons. That is a good answer, with more detail in the links Rabbi Hecht gave me. However, I still see no compelling reason for a non-religious Jew to believe in Judaism. If you can tell me go ahead. I am not trying to insult, I am just curious.
E-man,
A non-religious Jew does NOT believe in your version of Judaism. The problem you're having is that you refuse to acknowledge that any other view of Judaism even exists. You're also assuming that your version is the version that existed since Sinai. In fact, Judaism as it's now practiced among the Orthdox is different from how it was practiced 2,000 years ago. No reason that it can't evolve further, is there? Why not Reform? Why not Conservative or Reconstructionist, or whatever? Who says that mainstream Jews always believed exactly what you believe?
You're insisting that everything has to be black-and-white, and you're demanding that people either get with your particular hashkofo, or get out of the club. Don't you think that's a bit presumptuous?
As to intellectual reasons, perhaps there isn't one. But then, there's no solid "intellectual" reason to accept the Sinai revelation-- it's a matter of faith. The only people who accept it are the religiously indoctrinated (it has pretty much zero acceptance among biblical scholars and historians). So, maybe the basis for the non-Orthodox Jew's continued participation is the same as that of the Orthodox Jew-- emotional attachment. The one difference being that the non-Orthodox Jew just can't escape the intellectual conclusions of rational people everywhere.
I am not saying one should get out or belive in my version of judaism. I am just saying I don't understand why one would be Jewish if they don't belive in the revelation at sinai. Meaning G-D talking to the Jewish people. I you believe that then I hear, but if you don't then i don't understand.
Because being Jewish is more than just accepting one particular myth. Consider Rabbi Louis Jacobs. Consider Prof. James Kugel.
If I could prove to your satisfaction that the whole Sinai business was, in fact, just a myth, would you stop honoring your father and mother? Would you steal? Would you worship idols? Would you commit adultery? Would you lose all attachment to your history and the history of your family? Would you dismiss the entire Tanach as worthless? Would you murder people you didn't like? Would you assume that God doesn't exist at all? Would you conclude that there's really nothing unusual about the Jewish people? If the answers to all or most of those questions is "no," then doesn't that answer your initial question?
You may (and I emphasize the word "may") have to believe in the Sinai business or some version of it to be Orthodox (although you'd be surprised at the number of Orthodox Jews who aren't too sure about it). You don't have to believe it at all to be a Jew, and, for that matter, even a pretty observant one.
Regular morals are important for all people regardless of religion so I don't know why you are bringing them up. Murder, honoring parents, stealing, adultery, these are all things that exist in other religions and other societies. However worshipping idols, if you don't believe in Sinai, doesn't seem wrong to me. Also, why should I give the tanach any worth if I don't believe in it? Believing in G-D is one thing, but to follow Judaism is quite another.
What you seem to think is that I am saying Judaism is only Orthodoxy. That is not what I am saying. I am asking, if there was an inquisition in this country like in Spain, why would you choose to stay Jewish as opposed to just giving it up and converting to Christianity? What compels you to stay. So it sounds like you are saying social reasons without actually believing in the religion. Unless there are certain statutes that you follow, which I don't understand why you would since you don't believe in the "mythology" of Judaism.
About your orthodox statement. I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Just because someone has doubts doesn't mean they don't believe. And if they don't believe, then why are they orthodox instead of conservative reformed or nothing?
I realize one can call themselves Jewish and associate with Judaism, but other than social reasons and cultural affections, why choose to associate with Judaism as opposed to Islam, Christianity or any other religion. Or why associate with religion at all? Is it just social reasons? Do you feel the Torah gives off good morals that you want to follow?
"Regular morals are important for all people regardless of religion so I don't know why you are bringing them up."
Because they fit nicely into Judaism as a context.
"However worshipping idols, if you don't believe in Sinai, doesn't seem wrong to me. Also, why should I give the tanach any worth if I don't believe in it? Believing in G-D is one thing, but to follow Judaism is quite another."
Again, your thinking is too narrow. If one believes in one God, then worshipping idols is, at a minimum, rather foolish, regardless of Sinai. As to the Tanach, it may be the most influential piece of literature in the world. It's also a key part of Jewish history and culture. Can't I think that without believing that Noah built an ark and that Bilaam's donkey spoke?
"I am asking, if there was an inquisition in this country like in Spain, why would you choose to stay Jewish as opposed to just giving it up and converting to Christianity?"
No, that's not what you asked. But, since you ask it now: a) it's a silly question; and b) I might stay Jewish out of sheer obstinacy, which would be in keeping with my people's stiff-necked traditions.
"About your orthodox statement. I don't understand what you are trying to say here."
Then try reading it again; it was pretty clear.
"Just because someone has doubts doesn't mean they don't believe."
You're either a doubter or a believer, dude. Pick one.
"And if they don't believe, then why are they orthodox instead of conservative reformed or nothing?"
That question just undermined your whole point. You started out saying you didn't understand why someone would be Jewish and not believe. Now you suggest that non-believers might be comfortable in the Conservative or Reform movements. Mind picking one position and sticking with it?
"other than social reasons and cultural affections, why choose to associate with Judaism as opposed to Islam, Christianity or any other religion."
Why do I need something other than social reasons and "cultural affections?"
"Or why associate with religion at all? Is it just social reasons? Do you feel the Torah gives off good morals that you want to follow?"
Some of the morals in the Torah are exceptionally good (some are less so), but now you're undermining the point you made at the beginning of your last post-- you said I didn't need religion to have morals. I've answered that above.
So you admit, the only reason you believe in Judaism is social reasons and cultural affections.
Also, morals would exist even if you weren't Jewish so that can not be a real reason for associating yourself with Judaism.
"Again, your thinking is too narrow. If one believes in one God, then worshipping idols is, at a minimum, rather foolish, regardless of Sinai."
Christianity believes in one G-D, but they also have the concept of a trinity and that is considered Idol worship for Jews. So what is wrong with their religion in your eyes that you choose not to be Christian, or it must be since you were raised Jewish you feel stuck in Judaism because of societal reasons.
"You're either a doubter or a believer, dude. Pick one."
So if I have questions that I don't know the answer that means I don't believe? Or does it just mean that I haven't found the answers yet. Saying you are a believer or a doubter is foolish in my eyes. So if you haven't read every bit of knowledge then you must be a doubter and not a believer, because you don't know everything therefore your doubts make you a non-believer???
"No, that's not what you asked. But, since you ask it now: a) it's a silly question; and b) I might stay Jewish out of sheer obstinacy, which would be in keeping with my people's stiff-necked traditions."
I basically was asking what makes you choose Judaism over anything else on an intellectual level. Meaning, if the societal reasons were taken away and there was good reasons to follow a different faith, why wouldn't you follow the other faith. I was trying to clarify what I don't understand about Judaism that does not believe in Sinai.
"That question just undermined your whole point. You started out saying you didn't understand why someone would be Jewish and not believe. Now you suggest that non-believers might be comfortable in the Conservative or Reform movements. Mind picking one position and sticking with it?"
This was just a question to your statement, not part of my original question.
But again, you said the only reason you associate with Judaism is for social reasons. So I will say that my question is not for you. It is for someone who can tell me why, intellectually, they can believe in Judaism, without believing in Sinai. And an answer of, it is my right, does not answer my question.
"Some of the morals in the Torah are exceptionally good (some are less so), but now you're undermining the point you made at the beginning of your last post-- you said I didn't need religion to have morals. I've answered that above."
So do you believe in all the Morals that the torah preaches and if no then why choose Judaism based on morals. And if you tell me that conservative and reformed Judaism change the morals, then where do they get the idea that changing the morals fits into Judaism?
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