Navonim - The Ramblings of Garnel Ironheart

Navonim - The Ramblings of Garnel Ironheart
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Thursday, 20 August 2009

Intolerant of Intolerism

Years ago when I still went to the Conservative synagogue in my town I got caught up in talking with one of the more "progressive" guys there, an older man who always seemed to confuse income (he was a dentist) with intelligence. Upon discovering that I was not an egalitarian like all properly "enlightened" folks should be, he began to rant and rave. You see, I was a danger to the synagogue because I was running the junior services on Shabbos morning and someone like me might teach them things that were against Judaism as he understood them (did I mention that he was completely illiterate in Hebrew and openly stated that not having read the Chumash was no reason not to spout opinions about its contents?)
After a little back and forth, he came up with what he thought was his trump line: "I have no tolerance for intolerant fanatics like you!" he shouted in front of the morning crowd.
I didn't know what to say other than "You're intolerant of intolerance?" And, not getting the point he crowd "Yes!" as if a statement like his was actually meaningful.
The most recent post at Dr. J's blog got me thinking back to this anecdote. For those of you who not only like Jacob Stein but people who give him far more attention than he deserves, Dr J started a blog "devoted to the rebuttal and repudiation of the false religion propogated by Jacob Stein in his Jewish Philosopher blog". However, it seems that this isn't enough and now he's started branching out into frummie bashing. Well why not? Many other atheist/skeptic blogs sustain themselves on that poison (while simultaneously claiming that they're the victims of frummie persection) so why get left out?
The whole post is dedicated to his disagreement with the concept of separate seating at weddings. It seems he was invited to what he thought was a Modern Orthodox wedding only to be stunned to discover that there would be separate setting there.
He could have said "Well, I don't go for that so I wished them 'mazel tov' and skipped the event." However, that didn't appear to be the appropriate way to deal with the issue:
I think that this is really obnoxious, dumb, and inconsiderate. There is no halachic requirement for it, either. It is just the latest example of pseudo-frum heredi practices polluting the modern orthodox world. I find it offensive and primitive. It is saying that the men can't control themselves around women, and therefore keep the women out of sight.
Understand? Frum people who hold that separate seating are important are obnoxious, dumb and inconsiderate. Yes, it's their wedding. Yes, they're paying all the bills. Yes, no one is forcing him to attend and they thought they were doing a nice thing by inviting him. But no, that's totally wrong. Actually they're horrible people. How dare they think they can do something at their wedding that he disagrees with? Don't they have any sensibilities?
In other words, he's totally intolerant of their intolerance!
I wonder how Stein would analyze that.

7 comments:

Shalmo said...

Hey doofus you outta come to my shul sometime and rant away

Oh and I just wanna direct you and your fans to a good run down on the coming collapse of OJ:

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2005/11/judaism_is_fail.html

Its still not to late to shift to reform/conservative Garnel. Don't stay on that burning ship too long or you'll sink with it.

Garnel Ironheart said...

First of all, it's "ought to".

Secondly, I don't think I'd like what I'd find in your shul.

Third, shift to the heterdox? Are you kidding? The proportion of actual Jews in Reform is plummeting. The total number of self-identified Conservatives is plummeting.

Maybe some people think Torah Judaism is failing (of course, they're been thinking that for over 2000 years) but why would I switch from a possibly failing religion to what that already has?

Have you gone out and gotten that life I instructed you about yet?

Shalmo said...

Didn't you just tell us on recreational musings that OJ has been singing about the coming collapse of reform/conservative for ages; which still has never happened?

Read the stats for yourself: http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2009/08/more-than-13-of-all-us-jews-secular-456.html

"New study shows number of Jews leaving Jewish religion in any form is rapidly growing.
Jewish community generally does not program for or service these people. Study shows the vapidness of Jewish communal institutions and the abject failure of kiruv."

the above includes the epidemic of OTDs in the Orthodox world. And the first article I linked on this thread shows that today those who go OTD do not switch to reform/conservative as they did in decades past, instead today the growing rate of OTDs are those who leave ALL organized Jewish religious practise.

That 50% intermarriage/assimialation rate thus is not being halted by OJ birth-rates at all. Not when most of those kids are going OTD, and worse not joining the other congregations when they apostate.

Are you willing to liberlize OJ in order to stop this epidemic?

Shalmo said...

"of course, they're been thinking that for over 2000 years"

I hear this line from every religion

When I inquire catholics about the 9.8 million who left the Church in the last deacade, they say people have been singing about the collapse of catholicism for 2000 years

Ask an evangelical the same thing, he says the same that people have been singing about the end of christianity for 2000 years

Ask a hindu, they'll say the same thing that people have been singing about the end of their religion for 8000 years, yet its never happened.

E-Man said...

When has anyone been singing about the collapse of hinduism? That would be like singing the collapse of the chinese, and we all know that is never going oto happen, 1.8 billion strong. By the way, for Judaism it has been at least 3500 years. Christianity was about 2000, it really is a little less.

The Leader, Garnel Ironheart said...

Come to think of it, which major religion has collapsed in the last 2000 years?

shalmo said...

sikhism is collapsing, and fast in India. Coz they keep killing newborn girls

zorastrianism is also going extinct with high intermarriage and assimilation

Unlike hinduism, islam and christianity; judaism has a small base since jews stopped proselytizing after the roman exile. When decline of jewish numbers are brought forth, its good reason to take precautions to do something about it.