Navonim - The Ramblings of Garnel Ironheart

Navonim - The Ramblings of Garnel Ironheart

Wednesday, 12 August 2009

Today's Pioneers

A century ago the chalutzim were brave young men and women from Europe who lived the 1800 year old dream (at that point) of returning to rebuild Jewish life in Israel. They lived under terrible conditions and faced constant attacks from local Arabs but through the stiff-necked stubborness that has been the Jewish people's greatest asset when channeled in the right direction, they built up our Land and laid the groundwork for the rebirth of Jewish sovereignty in Israel.
Today, they would be perceived as wild-eyed fanatics, maniacs roaming the hills with weapons and nothing better to do than terrorize the poor, local Arabs who only want to live in peace.
It's easy to say that too, because that's how the media loves to portray those Jews whose ongoing sin is to live in areas of the British mandate that Israel was preventing from taking control of in 1949 by a United Nations that was already regretting creating the opportunity for the State to be created in the first place.
As Gary Rosenblatt notes, the settlers are not what you'd think they are from CNN's terrible coverage:
They are not wild-eyed zealots or prone to violent attacks on Arab neighbors. They are American-born professionals who made aliyah for religious, idealistic and Zionist reasons, believing that Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people, and that it is a mitzvah and extraordinary blessing, after centuries of exile and persecution, to be a citizen of the Jewish state.Most of these friends have become increasingly critical of Mideast peace talks over the years, asserting that while the majority of Israelis accept the premise of a two-state solution and have shown their willingness, repeatedly, to make compromises, the Palestinian response is always “no” and “we want more.” As a result, these friends are highly critical of
American efforts as naïve at best, and they are cynical about the international community’s condemnations of Israel, out of all logic and proportion.

Here's the bottom line: between 1949 and 1967, only Pakistin and Britain recognized Jordan's annexation of Yehuda and Shomron. No one recognized Egypt's control of 'Aza. Nor did anyone talk about how these territories were "occupied Palestine". Indeed, back then pre-1967 Israel was "occupied Palestine". The 6 Day War simply completed the job the Israelis were prevented from finishing 18 years earlier. Thus those Jews living in Yehuda, Shomron and, until recently, 'Aza were not illegally occupying a foreign state. They were living on land promised to them in two separate internationally binding agreements that the world community forgets about when inconvenient.
They are not (mostly) wide-eyed fanatics. They are not, as Rosenblatt notes, the evil obstacle to peace that the left-wing Jewish community thinks they are, courtesy of Arab propaganda:
One of the sharpest divides between the Orthodox and non-Orthodox segments of American Jewry is in their attitudes toward the settlements. For the Orthodox, who often visit friends, former neighbors and family members living in places like Efrat, Ma’aleh Adumim and the Old City of Jerusalem, all over the Green Line, these are lovely Jewish communities inhabited by responsible citizens devoted to their families, their work, and society.But as a Reform leader told me the other day, “our people have little sympathy for those living in the settlements,” acknowledging that their perception is more of young fanatics in isolated outposts clashing with Arabs and the IDF than of families — many of them secular — going about their daily lives, as in most suburbs.
They are today's chalutzim, the Jews who are reclaiming our land through their stubborness and desire to build it up. As a reward for their efforts, we should be supporting them in any way we can.


Shalmo said...

Write a book.

Call it Garnel Ironheart's Historical Revisionism on the middle-east

You never did respond to my first argument here, which is that contrary to Torah israeli archaeology has consistently shown Jews in fact have never had access to all of biblical Canaan.

The Leader, Garnel Ironheart said...

I have no interest in dealing with your warped arguments, Shalmo. Your view of reality reminds me of the mirror universe in Star Trek's classic episode "Mirror, Mirror". All the right faces but the characters are the opposite of what they should be.

Shalmo said...

"A normal, intelligent debate presupposes that each party is prepared to change his mind when presented with evidence of the other side's position. Unfortunately, I'm not really surrounded by normal intelligent people. Rather it's been quite the opposite: closed minded misanthropes who are fanatically devoted to their illogical positions and who don't so much want to discuss issues as to ridicule and demean those views they don't agree with."

Let those words be your epitaph Garnel Ironheart!!!

Shalmo said...

lemme copy and paste what said about this topic before:

There is something important to bare in mind. The Arabs had control of and residence in Jerusalem for close to 13 centuries, which is as long a time or more than that for which the Bani Israel had sovereignty over the area from the conquest of Canaan in ca 1250 CE to the Roman invasion of 70 CE. The Arabs have just as much historical tie to the area as the Jews. So the idea that Jews have explicit right because their ancestors lived there God knows how long ago is ludicrous.

And here is the most important part. Many Jews are descendants from later converts (ever wonder about all those blond haired Jews...). Jews had largely already left prior to any Muslims coming in there, and no, it wasn't because the Romans kicked them all out. That's a distortion of history, Jews had been leaving for other lands for some time, such as to Egypt (Alexandria) and other areas, not out of persecutions, but for the same reason so many people in the "third world" leave their homelands today, economic opportunities. From what I recall, population estimates indicate that prior to the Roman sack, the majority of Jews were already living outside of Palestine. Even after the Roman sack of Jerusalem, there was still a Jewish presence in Palestine after that.

How can the descendants (thousands of years later) of people who voluntarily left, or whose ancestors were never there in the first place, lay any claim to the land today?

And ofcourse if a zionazi read the above data he would be skeptical, which is why I have made sure to get my information from a source even they can't deny:

"Writing in 1971, Salo W. Baron estimated the Jewish population within the borders of the Roman empire at just under 7 million, with slightly more than a million others living outside its borders, mostly to the east; the Jewish population of Palestine he placed at not higher than 2.5 million (Encyclopaedia Judaica [New York: Macmillan, 1972], vol. 13, p. 871). Paul Johnson writes “Though it is impossible to present accurate figures, it is clear that by the time of Christ the diaspora Jews greatly outnumbered the settled Jews of Palestine: perhaps by as many as 4.5 million to 1” (A History of Christianity [New York: Athenaeum, 1976], p. 12). Subsequent estimates generally fall between these extremes. Thus, Wayne Meeks in The First Urban Christians (New Haven, Conn.: Yale University Press, 1983) estimates 1 million Jews in Palestine, 5 million to 6 million in the diaspora."

FROM: Encyclopaedia Judaica and Yale University Press